Forum:2018-12-19 (Wednesday)
Discussion for comic for . Bored? Looking for something useful to do? There's plenty of wiki editing you can do. ---- Hunting Queens... you mean like the Other started picking off powerful Sparks 20 years ago? Also, doubling down on my suggestion that the end of the Queens and the overall lack of female Sparks is related. PhoenixTalion (talk) 06:42, December 19, 2018 (UTC) :Hm. The first theory on that was that Tarvek's father was having female sparks kidnapped and stuck in the Summoning Engine to try and brink back Lucrezia. This is another possibility; picking off female sparks, the larval form of these second-breakthrough Queens. --MadCat221 (talk) 06:56, December 19, 2018 (UTC) : I'd still say the recent lack of female Sparks is/was caused by Aaronov. --Geoduck42 (talk) 08:45, December 19, 2018 (UTC) ::He was definitely part of it. But I got the impression that it's been like this for more than the past twenty years, and it doesn't account for the lack of female Heterodynes. And I think Lucrezia's whole plot ties back into the whole Goddess thing somehow too. Her status with the Geisterdamen, the huge leap in technical ability when she became active as the Other, her reaction to Zola calling her a fraud... I just can't quite figure out the shape of it all. (I'd also be interested in knowing whether either of the other Mongfish sisters were Sparky, as an aside.) PhoenixTalion (talk) 10:38, December 19, 2018 (UTC) :::I always thought that was because Lucrezia wasn’t exactly The Other; rather, that she had been possessed/mind controlled by it, hence the sudden gain in technical ability. 17:12, December 19, 2018 (UTC) :::: While I haven't discounted the idea of Lucrezia becoming the Other due to to some kind of outside influence, I personally think that between some combination of time-related tech and being disembodied, she experienced a lot more than six months in that time. From the book: "The things she was revealing were, in her opinion, elementary advances to existing mechanisms. Tarvek’s reactions suggested that she had progressed more than she had realized. “Well I certainly had the time,” she conceded to herself." ''Anyway, Lucrezia seems to believe she's Lucrezia. PhoenixTalion (talk) 18:26, December 19, 2018 (UTC) :::: Going back to the lack of females, the way that Lilith said that even the Baron had noticed the lack of females made it seem like a relatively recent thing. If it predated the Empire and the Hetrodyne Boys, she should would have said that it was a historical issue for Female Sparks. 'Black' Victor Cachat (talk) 05:03, December 20, 2018 (UTC) QUEENS/SPARKS--BLOOD CONNECTION? Could the Spark be a sign that somebody is descended from one of the Queens? Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 11:57, December 19, 2018 (UTC) : I mean. I'm sure some are, but I doubt it's either necessary or sufficient. Sparks were already a thing in the time of the Queens. Zeetha is presumably some sort of decendent of Luheia, and she's not a Spark. You'd have a hell of the time verifying any ancestry that far back for anyone except maybe Albia's own lineage. PhoenixTalion (talk) 18:33, December 19, 2018 (UTC) ::''Sparks were already a thing in the time of the Queens. sAYS WHO? Bosda Di'Chi (talk) 19:24, December 19, 2018 (UTC) ::: I interpret Albia's " " remark to imply she was a Spark before she became a queen. Argadi (talk) 20:13, December 19, 2018 (UTC) ::: Says PhoenixTalion (talk) 20:17, December 19, 2018 (UTC) ::: They evidently had Sparks in Ancient Greece, so they've been around a while. --Geoduck42 (talk) 00:37, December 20, 2018 (UTC) THE LONG WAR Another theory I just had... The demise of all the Queens save Albia is what started the Long War. So many power vacuums would be caused by so many immortal sovereigns dying. Heck, maybe the triple-kill that is probably about to culminate in the next page or so is the final catalyst.--MadCat221 (talk) 20:43, December 19, 2018 (UTC) : I would say so indirectly. We are talking centuries ago by this point, so while their deaths may have triggered off a Dark Age equivalent, other factors would have had to maintain it. 'Black' Victor Cachat (talk) 05:03, December 20, 2018 (UTC) :: TBH I'm not convinced that we're not still talking millennia ago rather than centuries. Albia's still sporting a loincloth, after all. PhoenixTalion (talk) 18:47, December 20, 2018 (UTC) Who and why? Sorry for the anticlimactic heading, but I don't have a Theory to present, just questions. ➤ Everyone seems to be assuming that what we're seeing is the Other at work, either going back in time from our times, or starting out in a host other than Lucrezia. But in the former case, why bother? She doesn't stick around in the past to rule there, so killing the Queens is mere vandalism. And in the latter case, wouldn't we have a history about an ancient version of Klaus who ruled the world for a long time? ➤ : I mean, as soon as we throw time travel in, pretty much anything becomes possible. Lucrezia could have been trapped in the future where she became the Other only to project herself back into the past and take over a toaster, trick her past-self into an elaborate plot so her toaster-self could overwrite her present-self with her future self's memories. Anyhow. Whoever Enigma and/or the Other is, we could be seeing both different iterations of them in the time streams and different copies of them in play at the same time. Solomon Keyes (talk) 05:37, December 21, 2018 (UTC) I don't expect to understand what's happening here until we find out who made the Mirrors, and why. And also, how and why Martellus (or rather, perhaps, the Abbess) learned how to control the technology that nobody else, including, apparently, the Queens, has understood. ➤ On a related note, are we all rejecting about causality as non-Canonical? Bkharvey (talk) 06:13, December 20, 2018 (UTC) ::I don't know that it was the Other killing off the Queen's per se, only that they seem like strikingly similar patterns. Something comes out of nowhere, killing the most powerful people on the planet through means beyond even them, with no threats or demands or attempts to replace them and seize their holdings. ::I haven't been discounting Homecoming King yet, but it raises it's own questions. Was the H'Trok Din always going to have gone back no matter what anyone did, because he already had, or if the students had stopped him, would the history of Europa for the past 800 years have been irreparably altered? Or attracted seventh-dimensional entities from beyond time? (I'm leaning toward fixed causality, myself. The Enigma/Muse of Time will always have appeared to Agatha setting her off, Bang will have always seen the visions of Agatha and Gil, affecting the Baron's actions.) ::My questions from HK are these -- how long after the fall of the Queen's was the Six Hour War when the H'Trok Din used the altars that sound a helluva lot like mirrors, and was the battle-goddess of the Dyne spring a Queen? PhoenixTalion (talk) 11:34, December 20, 2018 (UTC) Runes The runes transliterate as XEEATH, I think (I was just looking at the same runes in The Hobbit this morning...) 17:42, December 20, 2018 (UTC) : ...It's more likely to be actual futhark rather than Tolkien IMHO. In Elder Futhark it says ZOATH, in Anglo-Saxon it says XÆŒTH oh god too many vowels. That would put the fall of the Queens somewhere between 100 and 1000 AD, assuming one can rely on that and they're not just runes for the sake of looking rune-y. PhoenixTalion (talk) 18:47, December 20, 2018 (UTC) : Same runes in the same order in The Hobbit? What was the context? Anything going on that would shed light on the present battle? Bkharvey (talk) 05:40, December 21, 2018 (UTC) Wait a minute. Is the hosting Goddess the same whose temple is briefly mentioned here? PhoenixTalion (talk) 16:42, December 23, 2018 (UTC)